Thursday, March 26, 2009

A Indian Trail From Amatoya Moytoy to My Mother

Amatoya Moytoy 1640 - 1730 Founder of a Family of Chiefs


My 9g-Grandfather
Amatoya Moytoy of Chota (pronounced mah-tie) was a Cherokee town chief of the early eighteenth century in the area of present-day Tennessee. He held a prominent position among the Cherokee, and held the hereditary title Ama Matai (From the French matai and Cherokee ama--water), which meant "Water Conjurer."

His father was a European, Thomas Pasmere Carpenter, who was descended from the noble Anglo-Norman family of Vicomte Guillaume de Melun le Carpentier. Thus, Moytoy's European lineage can be traced to the Frankish Duke Ansegisel of Metz Meroving, Peppin II, and Charles Martel. This ancestry also makes the Cherokee Moytoys cousins to the Carpenter Earl of Tyrconnell, and thus related to the current British royal family.

The Carpenter family of Devonshire & Plymouth England were small sailing ship owners, many of which were leased out to the East India Trading Company, an affiliation dating to the formation of that company December 31, 1600. Documented ownership of fifteen different ships owned by the Carpenter family, those of which were involved with moving furs between the Gulf Ports & Glasgow, or Dublin, and trade goods for North America. These ships usually made stops both directions at Barbados where the family had banking connections set up. These ships were small and fast, often able to make the crossing from Scotland and Ireland in less than thirty days. They were shallow draft ships, capable of handling shallow water ports with ease. The first documented trip made by Thomas Pasmere Carpenter occurred April 1640, sailing from Maryland to Barbados aboard the Hopewell, and returning on the Crispian in September 1640. He made another trip in March 1659 departing Charleston South Carolina aboard the Barbados Merchant, returning on the Concord in August 1659.

Twenty year old Thomas Pasmere Carpenter came to Jamestown, Virginia from England in 1627, living in a cave near the Shawnee. Thomas was called "Cornplanter" by the Shawnee, derived from their sign language that matched as near as possible to the work of a carpenter. He married a Shawnee woman named "Pride" and bore a son around 1635 named Trader Carpenter.

Amatoya was taught by his father to “witch” for water with a willow stick. He had become so adept at water witching that the Cherokee called him "water conjurer" or Ama Matai (Ama is Cherokee for water). Ama Matai eventually became pronounced as Amatoya. It was later shortened to “Moytoy”, so he is known as Moytoy I. He ruled the town of Chota sometime between the beginning of the eighteenth century and 1730.


In 1680, Amatoya married Quatsie of Tellico. Many of their descendants went on to become prominent leaders, founding a family that effectively ruled the Cherokee for a century.

Notable members include:
Moytoy I, Chief of Chota; born around 1640 and probably died in 1730; was leading chief at the time of his death
Moytoy II, Emperor of the Cherokees and Chief of Great Tellico; son of Moytoy I; born around 1687; leading chief from 1730 to 1760
Moytoy III
Moytoy IV, Raven of Chota
Kanagatucko, Old Hop; leading chief from 1760-1761.
Attacullaculla, Prince of Chota-Tanasi; born around 1708, died around 1777; leading chief from 1761 to around 1775
Oconostota, Warrior of Chota and Beloved Man of the Cherokee; born ca. 1710 and died in 1783; was war chief of the Cherokee Nation from 1775 to 1780
Nancy Ward, Beloved Woman of the Cherokee and granddaughter of Moytoy I
Major Ridge, grandson of Oconostota and of Attacullaculla
General Stand Watie, great-grandson of Oconostota and of Attacullaculla

272 comments:

  1. As someone also doing research, I find your story quite interesting. I'm a descendent of Gosaduisga and have seen some conflicting info, but your research has been insightful. I can see where this could become addictive!

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    1. Yes it does confirm Cherokee Blood lines. It is also sufficient information to become a tribe member of the Western Cherokees. It is very difficult, almost impossible right now (and in my opinion not worth it) trying to become a member of the Eastern Cherokees because of the money involved with the Casinos.

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    2. Really it's because the roles have closed except to newborns whose parents must take a DNA test to prove Eastern Cherokee blood.

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    3. With DNA we could know what tribe or many different tribes, as in my case, but I cannot enroll because grandmothers married white men who wanted their wives to be white so their children would be white so they would not be persecuted, killed, rounded up and moved, tagged like cattle. I can see why but I totally look Indian and am Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee. Also related to Pocahontas. My grandmother on my fathers side told me her grandmother was full Cherokee. I was so excited when I saw my mom, that was the first thing I told her and she blurted out well you are on my side too. I don't know how many times I heard her say she wished she'd never told me. I know, I told my son and he is proud as I am.

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    4. I don't know anything about the other tribes, but if you have a relative on the Dawes Roll you can be enrolled as a Western Cherokee. They or you certainly do not have to be full blood Cherokees. It is not the amount of Cherokee you have, it is strictly about the Dawes Roll. White men and women who married Cherokees are then considered to be a member of the tribe. And I too a very proud of my Cherokee heritage. I love this quote from
      Jim Pell: Principal Chief of the North Alabama Cherokee Tribe

      "There is no such thing as 'part-Cherokee.' Either you're Cherokee or you're not.It isn't the quantity of Cherokee blood in your veins that is important, but the quality of it . . . your pride in it. I have seen full-bloods who have virtually no idea of the great legacy entrusted to their care. Yet, I have seen people with as little as 1/500th blood quantum who inspire the spirits of their ancestors because they make being Cherokee a proud part of a their everyday life."




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    5. Sharon, I believe the way you do. Yes I have Cherokee Blood and I am proud of my family for all the trials and things they put up with. Yes, because of them I have had a better life. I just do not know how to prove this. I have done research on my family and have a lot of proof. I do not know to put this together to prove it.

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    6. Do you have a relative on the Dawes Roll, Shadow?

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    7. sharon does it matter how far back? is there a free place to search dawes rolls? ronda essary

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    8. I am not sure what you mean how far back.? And there are free places to search the rolls.Just Google Dawes Roll but here is an easy one that is free http://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes

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    9. Does this mean that if I had a great-uncle that signed Dawes, I can apply to be a part of the Western Cherokee nation? "Wurteh" Elizabeth Watts(Gist) BENJE, daughter of Chief Great Eagle and woman Ani Wadi, is my 6th great-grandma on my mom's side. I already consider myself Cherokee, but would love to officially sign up.

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    10. My name is William Ray Allison, Jr. My dad's mother, Cora Waters, was enrolled in the Dawes Roll as was her mother, Maudie Condreay Waters, her mother, Barbara Allie Palone Condreay, and her mother, Mary Parris Palone. Mary Parris Palone was born in Georgia in 1841 and died in Westville, Oklahoma, in 1921 and is buried at the Old Baptist Mission Cemetery there, right across the road from the church (where I was married in 1984). Mary is the daughter of Malachi Parris and Mahala Morton. Malachi was born in 1813 in Georgia and died in 1864 in Cane Hill, Arkansas. Malachi is the son of Robert Parris and Penny Langley. This thread says Robert is the son of Prachy, the son of A-nu-we-gi Moytoy, the son of Moytoy, the son of A-ma-do-ya. Am I reading this history correct? Could Prachy also have been Captain George Parris. My email is billallison60@gmail.com and I am very interested in any information concerning this. Thank you. I am a citizen of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

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    11. Sorry but how would I know. Research Research Research

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    12. DNA can not tell you what tribe you are from. It can only tell you if you have a percentage of native american DNA. I am a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. I have relatives on the Dawes rolls. As mentioned earlier the Dawes Rolls are available on the internet. I just took a look & saw a Malachi Parris 1843 - 1906 on the Chapman Roll of the Eastern Cherokees. And him applying for the Dawes Rolls. I think his number was 2038. His mother/sister (?) Mahaley Parris #1225 on the Dawes Rolls. William Ray Allison, Jr - that should give you some help in your search. For all of you who want to prove Indian ancestry please take the time to read history books. You can't even begin to understand the vagaries of the Cherokee Nation if you don't know it's history.

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    13. Also - just to be clear - there are only 3 true Cherokee tribes. The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, The Eastern Band of Cherokees in North Carolina and the United Keetowah Band in Oklahoma. Any other tribes claiming to Cherokees are fake - not recognized through history, culture, etc.

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    14. 525+years....records kept by mainly foreign bloods...it is ALL "WE" the indigenous peoples of this GREAT LAND ...we came to call AMERICA...NAMED FOR A FOREIGN BLOOD...GET ALONG...HEPL EACH OTHER...STOP CLAIMING YOUR INFO IS THE TRUTH...I ..A 31/64 CHEROKEE...ACCORDING TO "everyones" mis guided and truthful research...WILL USE ALL OF IT...
      MAKE "AMERICA" GREAT AGAIN...TELL THE TRUTH ...THE WHOLE TRUTH...AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH...SO HELP YOU/US ALL...WITH THE HELP OF THE DEITY OF "YOUR" choice...
      I AM...A DESCENDANT OF THE CLAIMED CHIEF "MOYTOY I...II...III...IV AND UNCLE MOYTOY #V...
      Do what it right...for the good of all...
      INDIGENOUS RISING...BY GETTING ALONG...UNITED...EVEN IN THIS BLOOD RESEARCH...

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    15. According to my family tree results Amatoya Moytoy is my 8th great grandfather, so it seems we may actually be distantly related. I was researching my Indian heritage on another side of my tree, then happened upon this information, it seems that my GG grandmother also kept the fact that they had Indian blood in the family a secret.

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    16. Osiyo! I have had a BIA card since I was about 11 (am 47 now), recently tested my DNA and it does show Native American. But I don't know if that means I am a member of a particular Cherokee tribe?? Is that a separate enrollment? I too am a descendant of Moytoy (he would be 8th grandfather). So I guess we are running into some "cousins" here. Was very interested in your article and appreciate you putting it here for us to read. My grandfather founded the Cherokee Elders Council in 1996. They run a great organization called The Rainbow House. Anyway, thanks for the article! I can be reached at bradyfigueroa@hotmail.com

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    17. I wish there was a way to edit....after further consideration, I am actually a descendant of Old Hop, which appears in different accounts to have been adopted by Moytoy. More research, more questions...but loving every minute of it!

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    18. I just did DNA and found out through matches and family tree that I’m related to Moytoy. I always knew I had Indian but did not know anything about my Heritage until now.

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    19. I'm glad to hear someone has a DNA match you are related to Moytoy ,I started to give up hope, some articles I read was making it seem like Moytoy didn't exist and there was no evidence of any Moytoy, could you please please send me what you have, anything about Moytoy, please my email is
      Starrbellababby@yahoo.com

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    20. I am a Tribal Citizen of The Cherokee Nation. I am also a descendant of Amatoya Moytoy.

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    21. My family is also related to the Moytoy. Moytoy pigeon of tellico had a daughter ani-ga-tage-wi moytoy whom married John Joseph Vann, they had a daughter Mary ottertail whom married 6x great grandfather Henry McGee. But I unfortunately have not been able to trase them on the rolls because she married a while man and movies to Tennessee. And all the deuce dents on both Sides the McGee’s and Vann was denided clames. It sad because all the info is there. I have arched on ancestry.com that links it all. Plus you can pull up the Vann Cherokee Indians and it tells you all about them. My 5x great grandfather was Henry ( Tarle Skawee) Mcgee. He was known as a trader in interpreter.

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  2. Yes, there is a lot of conflicting information out there. This is often caused by various sources confusing people of the same name (Cherokees traditionally pass the same ceremonial name down along various branches of the family) so there are many Moytoys who are often confused, and relationships can be different according to different sources. As a descendent of Attacullaculla (a member of the family by marriage, adoption, and possibly blood), family tradition often solves a lot of these problems.

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    1. I am a descendant of Miss Amatoya Taminad-Trader Kanagaota Motoy and Chief Amahetia 'll Moytoy of Tellico. He is my 10th cousin 7x removed. I'm very interested #1 if I was adopted if on roll can I still apply? #2 since so far back and DNA didn't show native Indian can I still apply?

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    2. Was Tomas erssay called another invlish name

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  3. amatoya moytoy was a realitive of my grandmother. she was born in 1912 died 1983. her connection was through granny hopper,and thomas essary.

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    1. She was my great x5 grandmother.

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    2. My family has connection through Granny Hopper and Thomas Essary. Dave C Essary his son reared my great grand mother Emmerline Emily Carter. Any information on this line would be appreciated.

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    3. this probably makes us distant cousins ronda essary

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    1. Many of the names you listed as relatives are also relatives of mine. Great Chief Doublehead and Drags Blanket were my 6th great grand parents as Amatoy Moytoy also a ninth great grandfather. I am on Ancestry.com. Surnames Bertholf, Riley, Priber

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    2. I'm also related to them as well. But trying to find of there is a roll number. I'm a descendent of stalking turkey. It runs on my dads side running through the Morgans. I know it run through my moms side but having trouble finding the information I need.

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    3. Have you found a role number yet? I have traced my grandmother Claudia peddycoart to Elizabeth Ravin hop moytoy.

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    4. I am related to Chief Moytoy on my mothers side. We were all born in Oklahoma and are also Scottish, being Duncan on both sides of my mothers family. Im now wanting to enroll. I admire the Cherokee for their courage, artistic talent and spiritual wisdom.

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    5. DNA will not do you any good, given the fact that several members who registered with the Dawes Commission were White, of various European origins, some were Black, former African American slaves, who came to be known as the Freedmen, identified as member by marriage or adopted into the nation. So DNA isn't going to tell you if you're Indian or not. To be recognized by The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, The Eastern Band of Cherokees in North Carolina and the United Keetowah Band in Oklahoma, you must show a relationship with a member who is on the Dawes Rolls. I don't know of any tribe that uses DNA as a means of proof - You have to be able to prove relationship to somebody on their tribal rolls.

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    6. Does any one have any proof of any Moytoy existing and any brothers or sisters having relating to any Moytoy, please email me at starrbellababby@yahoo.com

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  5. I also found this story interesting, as I always assumed that Amatoya was full blood. At such an early time, it would have been expected. I am descended through Moytoy the Pigeon, Willenawah Great Eagle, Chief Doublehead, Gu-Lu-Sti-Yu, Nannie Riley. It sounds as if intermarriage began so early, it would be difficult to ever establish a true degree of Indian blood.

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  6. The Shawnee and Cherokee Nations adopted by blood and marriage. No matter the racial or ethnic composition of someone who originated from outside the Clans, if they married a Cherokee, they were considered as full-blood by the Nation. They remained "full-blood" unless they remarried outside the Nation, in which case they were considered to revert or relinquish their blood-tie vow. The "provable dna" blood-ties via validated lineages and delineations only became re-defined during the time of Native American removal [Trail of Tears for example], and federal rolls for purposes of documenting the Nation, by the US Government, came into effect. US government required a person to "validate" their "native claim", first, as a way of counting the population which they were removing from native soils, and, then, to "prove" their right to receive federal dollars for support. Moytoy is considered to be full-blood by members of the Nation because his white father married Pride, a Shawnee. Noone knows if Pride was 'mixed blood' or not. With a name like Pride, which is english, it would seem that Thomas Carpenter was not the only white to intermarry at this time. Shawnees had already had at least 150 years of euro-white contact by the time Thomas showed up as a trader. The name Pride is also consistant with many early american names such as Loving, Charity, Comfort, Patience, Simplicity, Mercy, Joy etc. I have an early american ancestor named Comfort and one named Gladness, as well as one name Plenty. The emigrants who established our first colonies had a tough go. They often named their children for the virtues which they longed for, or identified with. Initially, many emigrants worked with the various Nations, and intermarried without racist views. Shawnee and Cherokee, they remembered their blood ties to Thomas Carpenter and by associative lineage based on their own societal order, to the British and, by extension, to the new Americans. So, a few generations later, they actually saw the bonds as ones of family [which is the truth]. British and new American views were roman-euro-centric, however, and did not politically agree. It is my humble opinion that they were wrong. The Nation had it right. People of my people, Blood of my blood, We are all earths children. >k.c.

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    1. What a beautiful, interesting and insightful article! I am also a descendent and am on a path to trace heritage since my deceased mother had set out to do. She passed away before she could find Ancestry.Com. If you have direct family members listed on The Dawes Rolls ... would that confirm blood lines?

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    2. Yes it would. I am related through Nanya'hi and her line.

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    3. finding family on the dawes rolls is hard, because a lot of names you may have pop up, but cherokee nation only accepts names between their 7 year requirement and they had to be living in OK . otherwise, your out of luck.

      here are my direct lineal ancestors which have proved no avail. some were shawnee married in to cherokee, some were pamunkey/ powhatan dwindling down into cherokee.

      chief murmuring ripple
      chief morning ripple
      shawando
      chief dancing stream
      chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
      scent flower
      morning scent flower- paupauwiske
      nonomatatiske winuske
      wahunsonocock
      virginia metis powhatan
      thomas munsawghe
      winanuske nonoma
      opechancanough
      namontack
      pride chalakahatha cornstalk
      taminad munsawghe
      locha quatsy nancy of tellico
      thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
      amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
      su-gi sookie moytoy
      anigatagewi moytoy
      amadoyamadoni moytoy
      su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
      anuwagi peggy moytoy
      cornelius dougherty
      james dougherty
      elizabeth dougherty
      nathan lawson
      sampson david lawson
      george w lawson
      mary mahala j lawson
      everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
      beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
      karyn bishof (me)

      if any of you have become recognized using any of these names, please share with me on how you did so as I have come to a brick wall. you can reach me at karynbishof10@gmail.com

      thank you so much!

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    4. su-gi sookie moytoy is my 7th great grandmother
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey, if I am remembering correctly was su-gi's Father.

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    5. Wahunsonocock is better known as Chief Powhatan. He was the father of Matoaka "Pocahontas" Powhatan. His mother was Scent Morning Flower and his Father was Running Stream. He is my 12th great grandfather and "Pocahontas" is my 11th great grandmother.

      SOOKIE SUSANNAH Su'Gi "GRASSHOPPER" Moytoy is my 5th great grandmother on the opposite side of my family.

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    6. were you able to become recognized through any of these names?
      -karyn
      karynbishof10@gmail.com

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  7. james barry stricklinApril 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM

    i am james barry stricklin of savannah,tn and i am a desendant of cheif moytoy and granny hopper through thomas essary to minnie essary ,but i nee help with this please send an e-mail to hardinco2000@yahoo.com and tell me how im kin.

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  8. Oh my goodness! I just was googling Attacullaculla's decendents and came across the name "Nancy Ward". My father was Kenneth Ward (son of Edward Ward and nephew of Martin Ward; he was born in Nashville, TN). I've heard only sketchy tales of being related to Attacullaculla (mostly because my father's parents died when he was young so he didn't get much family history passed down to him.) It's wonderful to actually see this.

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    1. I'm a descendent of Lucy ward which was in line for queen. She got married had a daughter and named her Lucy ward the all.

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    2. Hello, I too am descended from Moytoy ...then down through Nancy Ward...to Nancy Dial. It is incredible that all this is actually documented. The last relative I have who was on the last rolls was David Hadley born in 1900 in the Cherokee Nation. I'm looking for lists of those who made the March to Oklahoma. I really need to know who they were!

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  9. Hi Relatives!!!!
    I am Lowrey
    Major George Lowrey & Lucy Benge are where my family take off begins where we are related
    Oh how our ancestors would love to know we are all here, that they are here in us

    Shelly in California

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  10. Can I assume that 'Trade Carpenter' is Amatoya Moytoy?

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  11. This website is a total fraud witn no proofs or substantial evidence. Family connections all wrong, dates way off, and no proofs, which is worse than no website.

    http://www.dagulaku.com/

    Wappa' e-shiquechi' nika

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    1. What is this website? It looks like a schizophrenic mess. I don't see a purpose to it.

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  12. I just found my family i from WaLi Vann John trader Vann 1700's. We are from Texas.

    My mother had a olive complexion was small stature, quite person and she always told us she was indian
    But she didn't know how.
    Ancestry.com The history is outstanding.
    I am very proud to be of indian desent.

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    1. Mother Vann, Wah-li/Polly, is my documented 4x-grandmother. Who are those in your direct Vann line back to her? Her son James (Chief) is my 3x-gfa. I'm a citizen of the Cherokee Nation and descend from two Vann lines. Cat Vann

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  13. I am related to amatoya moytoy chota, agustin chota is one of my great grandmothers through my great grandmother birdie hazel rogers if you have asny more info i would really car to know

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  14. I am 63 and just recently learned that my mother's grt,grt,grt grandmother was Mary Ann Black, daughter of Black Fox and that making us descendents of Attakullakulla and Moytoy. Amazing! If anyone has more info please email me tmmorris@hughes.net. Love finding your site!

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    1. TM,

      Have you learned anything new re: Black Fox, Attakullakulla, Moytoy, and Thomas Pasmere Carpenter? Have latest post on thejamesscrolls.

      V/R,
      Jim

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  15. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  16. I've been researching the Moytoy line for some time. My gggg grandfather is Old Hop-Standing Turkey- Kanagatuckco. He was not a Cherokee as many believe. He was Shawnee and he married his cousin Su-gi Rainmaker. Su-gi was Shawnee/Cherokee. Old Hop went to live with his Aunt and Uncle Amatoya Moytoy after the death of his parents. He was known as Standing Turkey Cornstalk the son of Big Turkey Cornstalk the grandson of Hokolesqua Opechan Cornstalk. Old Hop and Su-gi had a daughter named Grasshopper and she married David McDaniel a registered Indian trader.

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    1. Grasshoppers name was Susan. She married William David MC Daniel in 1752. My info shows that he died that same year.I am a related. My daughter will be interested in your info. Thanks

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    2. William David McDaniel is one of my great grandfathers.email me with your information at cymayes46@gmail.com

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    3. Raven Hop Moytoy is my 8th Great Grandmother, I get confused after that.

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  17. Thanks for further assisting the Corruption of the Truth by posting Blatant lies pertaining to NOT MOYTOY, NO MOYTOY never existed &c.

    Ani'-Yun'wi ya' a'na's'gv'ti Toochlar hi'ge ani go'la da'gah' da -

    Dagulaku

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  18. My name is Carie Adkins Westbrook. I am a descendant of MoytoyI through his granddaught BlueSky Cornstalk who was Grandadughter of Amatoy's son Amatoy of Tellico. Bluesky's father was Shawnee Chief Cornstalk. She married Parker Vincent Adkins. I have been doing research for ten years in hopes to find a roll number to which I can apply for a CDIB card from at Cherokee Nation in Tahlequah, OK. Does anyone have any information of direct descendants of Moytoy I or II that are on the Dawes Final Rolls? cariewestbrook@live.com

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    1. Hi Carie, My name I Sheila King. I am a direct descendant of Grasshopper and William David McDaniel. Four generations below them in my tree lies Martha Conner and her daughter Beulah Francis Tucker. Both are on the Dawes Final Rolls out of Oklahoma. Perhaps this can help you find what you are looking for.
      MARTHA CONNER:
      1880 Census [CN]: Cooweescoowee, 471
      1902-07 Dawes roll: card# 3855, roll# 9293 as Martha Tucker
      1906-09 Miller roll: Afton, OK, ap# 24873, roll# 27399 as Martha Tucker
      Blood: 1/16 Cherokee

      BEULAH F TUCKER, b. 1899. More About BEULAH F TUCKER:
      1902-07 Dawes roll: card# 3855, roll# 9297
      Blood: 1/32 Cherokee

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    2. Sheila,
      If still around the board here, I'd enjoy corresponding with you and tapping your knowledge on William D. and Grasshopper McDaniel and their children.
      Do you know if your Elizabeth had a sister named, Agnes Susannah, aka Sookie or could be Su-gi like her Mom?

      Drop me a some info please,

      Allen
      Remember4us@live.com

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    3. i too have lineage from the mcdaniel line but different people listed than you have after grasshopper/su-gi, its mary mcdaniel and then it dwindles down to me. thats the link to my tree if you would like to view it. please email me at karynbishof10@gmail.com with information thanks!

      https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/80790518/family

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    4. The two children of Parker Adkins who were supposed to belong to Blue Sky were Littleberry & Charity. Mitochondrial DNA from a direct descendant of Charity Adkins shows that Charity's mother was a white woman - mostly English and Irish - not native American. Charity did not belong to Blue Sky; there is no reason to believe that she belonged to anyone other than Parker Adkins's wife, Mary. A paper trail of historical events at the time also disproves this relationship. For a complete explanation, go to http://www.parkeradkins.wordpress.com

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  19. this is very interesting.i have been researching my family on ancestry.com and as i have always known i was of indian descent, i just recently discovered i am related to amatoyoa moytoy,ka na fire, sookie ?, i have not been able to trace back any further,but maybe someone out there can be of assistance. (i'm also the granddaughter of richard essary sr.)

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    1. I'm so late to the game here, but my maiden last name is Essary (I'm the grand daughter of Ernest Essary) and I too am descended from Amatoya, kanagatoga and Sugi. I have a lot of information about our trees if you'd like to contact me at zevranroman@yahoo.com.

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    2. Fred Fuchs: I am wondering if Ernest Essary might be my great uncle. Was your grandfather by chance from the Roby Community in Chester County, TN 38340 or surrounding area? My email is ajudyann@hotmail.com. I am trying to find my possible connection to the Eastern Cherokee Nation. There is an oral history through my paternal grandfather, William Isaiah Essary that he had Native American blood.

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  20. My mother's father, grandfather, & g. grandfather are all on the Dawes Final Rolls. I can trace back to Chief Moytoy from her g.g. grandmother who was Caroline Carroll. Her mother was Nancy or Nannie Ward, daughter of Catherine McDaniel, who was the daughter of Granny Hopper, who was Old Hop's daughter. Old Hop's father was Chief Moytoy.

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    1. hi, I noticed your post was from over a year ago, but I just read it and wanted to check in with you regarding the linkage of Nancy Ward -- Catherine McDaniel -- Granny Hopper -- Old Hop -- Chief Moytoy. My information shows: Nancy Ward -- Tame Doe Raven -- Nancy Moytoy -- Chief Amatoya Moytoy. My info staes that Old Hop and Nancy Moytoy were siblings.

      What do you make of all this?

      thanks,
      Pam Treu
      pamtreu@gmail.com

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    2. Who was your Mother and her father? My 3rd great grand parents were Caroline Carroll & Powhatan T. Gewin. Would love to have their roll numbers since I have been unable to find them in several years of research. Your help would be treasured.

      Carol

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    3. I am also a descendent of Moytoy. I am very interested in getting the dawes final rolls number..I have been searching for this information...I am also trying to figure out the name of the unknown cheorkee son of moytoyII father of Ani Waya..email is missourigirl.lc@gmail.com

      Delete
    4. I am wanting help trying to find Jenni ani WiYa father, he is known as the unknown cherokee his father is Moytoy II..Does anyone have the dawes#..I am thinked to the Westbrook and Fogles? thanks

      Delete
    5. KAYLIN,

      MARY MCDANIEL AND CATHERINE MCDANIEL WERE SISTERS

      MY LINEAGE GOES DOWN FROM MOYTOY TO OLD HOP TO SUGI/ GRANNIE HOPPER, TO MARY MCDANIEL, TO ELIZ. DAUGHERTY/DOUGHERTY, NATHAN LAWSON,SAMPSON LAWSON, GEORGE LAWSON, MARY/MAHALA LAWSON, EVERETTE BADWIN (GPA), BEVERLY BALDWIN (MOM) KARYN BISHOF (ME)

      PLEASE EMAIL ME AT KARYNBISHOF10@GMAIL.COM

      Delete
  21. I am surprised that so many people are so negative. It is wonderful, if you know your family heritage or have stories of generations that came before you. It is fantastic to know your culture. For some, their families were ashamed of their indian heritage and made a point to hide it. It is a new and exciting process to reclaim the identity that was denied for so many years. It is an honor to finally connect to a past that was just beyond reach. Every one of us searching needs encouraged, support, and guidance. Please, be our brothers and sisters that we have been denied. Help us find our relatives and know what being Cherokee means.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Carie Adkins WestbrookMay 12, 2011 at 3:42 PM

    Thanks for that info on the Dawes but with out more specific names I can't connect it to my tree. The application is pretty specific. I have since figured out that I may not be descendant of Bluesky, do of Moytoy II of Tellico. Many researchers believe Parker Adkins only had 2 children with Bluesky, Littleberry and Charity.

    I am positive tho that I am descendant of Moytoy's grandaughter White Wing "big Nancy" Cornstalk, d.o. Chief Stout Man "Young Peter" Cornstalk. Which ties me to Chief Cornstalk "Peter I" and Moytoy II of Tellico.

    White Wing married Elijah Adkins. They had four children, 3 boys and a girl. She left Elijah, taking "little Nancy" with her, then became the 3rd wife of Tecumseh. White Wing's son Richard Adkins is my 5th gr-grandfather.

    Does anyone else connect to this tree, or have info on this line that they'd be willing to share?

    As always, I love becoming aquainted with new family members, no matter how distant the kinship.

    Carie Adkins Westbrook
    cariewestbrook@live.com

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hi my name is Quatsie Brim I'm 22, born in Oklahoma and I know that from my family history and my family members that I have a strong connection with this group of Cherokees in this page. I know that I am named after my great grandmother whos maiden name was Quatsie Catherine Copeland..and her father or my great great grandfather, was James Riley Copeland and I know he was a great leader in Oklahoma and was sought after for legal advice. I guess I'm just looking for more connections about my name and family tree.. I couldn't help but notice that Amotoya's wife and me had the same name.. I just dont know many Quatsies except for me and my great grandmother..... Please email me is any of u share a connection hhokomo@aol.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I also am from Moytoy and the Copelands. I am a direct descendant of Col. Stephen Copeland. Does that ring a bell?

      Delete
    2. I am researching the Copeland Family from the TN area. Catherine "Katie" Copeland, born abt 1811 was married to Shadrack Jackson, my grandfather many times distant. Catherine was of Cherokee lineage and had several family members on the Trail to OK. Any information you may have would be very helpful. jcjackson1968@gmail.com

      Delete
  24. I have been researching this part of my family for years...it is truly fascinating to make these discoveries.I am related to this line through Morning Kimborogh whose mother was from a tribe in Surry Virgina in 1668 and whose father was Soloman John Kimborogh.Soloman John's Father was a Fivekiller and Son of Trader Amatoya and Quatsy Tellico.I would love to find more out about Morning Kimboroghs mothers family.She married a William Little that I believe was also of mixed decent.Any ideas of where I could research further?...bastante.mavis@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mavis,
      I have also been looking at my family tree! I am a Little my greatgrand father was Harvey Ingram Little son of William. I have found most of my info on Ancestry.com I know about as much as you! Have you found out any more about Mornings mothers family? Pam chatty_devine@yahoo.com

      Delete
  25. I believe I am 11th generation descendent of Chief Moytoy. I am hoping to find any records of John Ward (my great grandfather) and his wife Emma. John's father was Yell Clement Ward. I have found their entries on the Dawes Roll, but would like to know more about my G-grandmother Emma, as we believe she was of full-blood.

    Stephanie11, Tamara10, Roscoe Eugene9, JOHN8, YELL CLEMENT7, GEORGE W6, JAMES5 WARD, CATHERINE KATIE4 MCDANIEL, GRANNY3 HOPPER (Grasshopper), OLD HOP2 (Kanagatucko), A-MA-DO-YA1 MOYTOY

    Any help would be greatly appreciated! sminter2000@hotmail.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. HEY, DO YOU MATCH WITH ME ON ANCESTRY OR 23 AND ME OR GED MATCH? -KARYN BISHOF

      ALSO DO ANY OF THESE NAMES LINE UP WITH YOURS?
      WHICH NAME DID YOU OBTAIN ENROLLMENT FROM

      chief murmuring ripple
      chief morning ripple
      shawando
      chief dancing stream
      chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
      scent flower
      morning scent flower- paupauwiske
      nonomatatiske winuske
      wahunsonocock
      virginia metis powhatan
      thomas munsawghe
      winanuske nonoma
      opechancanough
      namontack
      pride chalakahatha cornstalk
      taminad munsawghe
      locha quatsy nancy of tellico
      thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
      amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
      su-gi sookie moytoy
      anigatagewi moytoy
      amadoyamadoni moytoy
      ********su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
      MARY MCDANIEL
      WILLIAM MCDANIEL********
      anuwagi peggy moytoy
      cornelius dougherty
      james dougherty
      elizabeth dougherty
      nathan lawson
      sampson david lawson
      george w lawson
      mary mahala j lawson
      everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
      beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
      karyn bishof (me)

      Delete
    2. KARYNBISHOF10@GMAIL.COM

      Delete
  26. Hi I am descendant of Chief Moytoy. My line goes 'Phillips, Raper, McDaniel, Old Hop, Moytoy. If anyone is interested in exchanging family info please contact me @ walkersarehome@yahoo.com.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I'm a descendant through Moytoy, Doublehead, Colbert, Tharp, etc. Hit me up if you have any info on this line.
    Layla.bug1284@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Osiyo Cousin. I have seen you on my tree links for years. It is McDaniel and Suki, Daughter Rachel her Husband Henry Chambers, Tatum married Chamber's Daughter, Tatums Daughter marries Tharp. In my line Tharp marries a female Vance. Tharp Son marries an Allen. I gedmatch with all true descendants in this line, including Rachel's Sister Tookah's descendants that are also enrolled citizens of the Cherokee Nation.A210989

      Delete
    2. HEY, DO YOU MATCH WITH ME ON ANCESTRY OR 23 AND ME OR GED MATCH? -KARYN BISHOF

      ALSO DO ANY OF THESE NAMES LINE UP WITH YOURS?
      WHICH NAME DID YOU OBTAIN ENROLLMENT FROM

      chief murmuring ripple
      chief morning ripple
      shawando
      chief dancing stream
      chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
      scent flower
      morning scent flower- paupauwiske
      nonomatatiske winuske
      wahunsonocock
      virginia metis powhatan
      thomas munsawghe
      winanuske nonoma
      opechancanough
      namontack
      pride chalakahatha cornstalk
      taminad munsawghe
      locha quatsy nancy of tellico
      thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
      amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
      su-gi sookie moytoy
      anigatagewi moytoy
      amadoyamadoni moytoy
      su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
      anuwagi peggy moytoy
      cornelius dougherty
      james dougherty
      elizabeth dougherty
      nathan lawson
      sampson david lawson
      george w lawson
      mary mahala j lawson
      everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
      beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
      karyn bishof (me)

      Delete
    3. MARY MCDANIEL IS DAUGHTER OF WILLIAM MCDANIEL AND SU-GI

      Delete
    4. I did not obtain enrollment from any of them. None of them. Not even from my documented Chambers line because my GGrandFather refused to sign up on the Dawes, even though my GGrandMother Ada B Allen spoke for him in her Dawes packet. It is what it is. Only the descendants whose Ancestors are on the Dawes can enroll. I am enrolled through my GGrandMother.

      Delete
  28. Hi all... I just found out that I am part of this family! We never knew where my ggrandfather came from, but thanks to Ancestry.com, I now know that his ggrandmother was Cornblossom, daughter or Doublehead. I did not even know that we were related to the Cherokee, so this has been very exciting! Although my family moved to Texas 30 yrs. ago, we are orignially from the Pulaski/Wayne Co. Kentucky area.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I really hate to burst your bubble. But Cornblossom is one of those internet myths. She never existed, there is not one schred of factual evidence that she was a real person. Even the Troxel(sp?) family that started the story of Cornblossom & Yalloh Falls was a made up story. There is a whole lot of those kind of things that get picked up & repeated over & over again. From sites like Ancestry & others. The family trees are just posted by folks like you & me. With no cross checking or error corrections etc. That's why you need to rely on primary reccords in places like the National Archives.

      Delete
    2. Cornblossom is not an internet myth!

      Delete
    3. Oh Gee Mike .. I hope you are wrong!! What a tragidy it would be if all those people believing to have these descendents were all mislead. I would think that would be a HUGE fraud on the Ancestry.Com people

      Delete
  29. Thank you so much. I just started this ancestry.com. My Grand daughter who is 7, Is very interested an wanted me to look up a few. WELL we all Know what that started. It is wonderful , because I have had an Indian Fedish ,for a Long time. I have a wolf, I collect Indian Pictures, And the Indian on the horse is my Favorite. He is suppose to be called "The End Of The Trail". My Heart Breaks When I see Anything about the Trail of tears. To Know that they are a part of my life, is so Great. I am still a little confused on the wives an children. I am going to make a trip to oklahoma, not to far , we now live in Arkansas. thanks again

    ReplyDelete
  30. I found on one person's tree in Ancestry.com that Phaerba Ammons was daughter of Phoebe Eseentrino which was daughter of Rebecca C Indian, daughter of Great Eagle can annyone confirm this or say it is not true can't find any information.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Can the blogger please remove my comment? I really am trying to clean up my visible Internet life and found this when I googled myself years later. I would really, really, really appreciate it. -Heather

    ReplyDelete
  32. Heather, I will be glad to remove it, but I am not sure which one is yours. There is a Heather comment, which doesn't need any cleaning up as far as I am concerned. If you were an Anonymous give me the time and date and I will be glad to remove it.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hello,

    Sorry you spent so much time Copying and Pasting My Formally Copyrighted Work, published in LEGEND OF THE WOLF, ISBN Formally Registered Globally, which Proves You a Plagarist Guilty of Formal Copyright Infringement. You will be hearing from my Attorney forthwith.

    Furthermore, Thomas Carpenter did not descend from the Ancient European families Cited on Your BOGUS Website, which his family of Plymouth Devonshire Family did not orginate Europe.

    The following Quote – Was STOLEN From http://dauglaku.com by wannabe Shawnee Liar Don Greene author of “Shanee Heritage” et al in 2003 which, was and still is a Formal © Copyright ® Registered Trademark Website in Early 2003.

    “The Carpenter family of Devonshire & Plymouth England were small sailing ship owners, many of which were leased out to the East India Trading Company, an affiliation dating to the formation of that company December 31, 1600. Documented ownership of fifteen different ships owned by the Carpenter family, those of which were involved with moving furs between the Gulf Ports & Glasgow, or Dublin, and trade goods for North America. These ships usually made stops both directions at Barbados where the family had banking connections set up. These ships were small and fast, often able to make the crossing from Scotland and Ireland in less than thirty days. They were shallow draft ships, capable of handling shallow water ports with ease. The first documented trip made by Thomas Pasmere Carpenter occurred April 1640, sailing from Maryland to Barbados aboard the Hopewell, and returning on the Crispian in September 1640. He made another trip in March 1659 departing Charleston South Carolina aboard the Barbados Merchant, returning on the Concord in August 1659.”

    Jim White, Researcher Author - Legend of The Wolf, © 2005, update 2007, update 2009 … Lulu Press

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ok ... as an outsider of all your bickering ... let me ask .. What is Fact?? Were the Carpenters traders from England or not? If the family did not originate from Plymouth Devonshire England ... then where??? Inquiring minds want to know!!

      Delete
    2. History can't be copyrighted. Only original work can be copyrighted.

      Delete
    3. This Jim White is a certifiable nut who sells fantasy genealogies on Lulu. You should probably not waste a lot of time trying to confirm what he claims, since it's probably either fake or imaginary.

      Delete
  34. Grateful for all posts and terribly fascinated by their contents. Am hoping to correspond with those with documentary evidence of these links as I'm a descendent of Black Fox (via William Davis), Attakullakulla and Moytoy. Can be reach at james.swords@cox.net

    Your most Humble & Obt. Servt.
    Jim Swords
    Jamestown/Wmbg, VA

    ReplyDelete
  35. Looks like we are distant cousins through Nancy Ward, Cornstalk, Moytoy and everyone else!

    ReplyDelete
  36. My Grandmother's is named Ethel May (Carpenter ) Fisher . I would love some help from any one . To know my Carpenter Family . This is my Email address blustar957@yahoo.com . My Grandfather names is Harry Leo Fisher. I would be so delighted for help. God Bless You .

    ReplyDelete
  37. This is my 17th Great Grand father through my dads side of the family..... it has been an inspirational journey researching my family tree.

    Sonja Yount
    iyount1@att.net

    ReplyDelete
  38. I am so glad I have found this! I had always wondered about Amatoya's lineage... I've found so much information on his descendants, just not his ancestors! Thank you for this information! I am related to Amatoya through his son, Old Hop, Sookie Hopper, Catherine McDaniel, Mary Elvira Hensley, Mary Elvira Ward, to Lille Belle Holland, who is my 3rd great grandmother!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Do you have a Mary Evia Carter Essary? Just asking! Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  40. charlotte a. kirkland ,I am cousin to some of yall.I am through...amatoya moytoyquatsy of tellico they are my 10th ggrand parents.my tree goes on into the heltons,where eudica d helton mar. william r kirkland(part shawnee)I am proud of my new found heritage. Charlotte a. kirkland

    ReplyDelete
  41. My family is also kin to Granny Hopper and Thomas Essary. Dave C Essary,his son,and Sarah Carter Essary reared my grandmother Minnie Malone (Essary)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IN MY RECORDS SHE IS MARRIED T WILLIAM MCDANIEL DAUGHTER MARY MCDANIEL FATHER KANA-GATOGA

      WAS ESSARY FROM ANOTHER MARRIAGE? CAN YOU PLEASE SHARE TO KARYNBISHOF10@GMAIL.COM

      Delete
    2. ressary@cableone.netNovember 10, 2018 at 8:25 PM

      Try Elizabeth "Quatsey" Betsy McDaniel whom was married to James Thomas Essary. Also her parents were William David MCDANIEL b: 1726 in TN
      Mother: Granuaille(*), (**) Su-Ki MOYTOY HOPPER b: 1725 in Chota, TN.. Granuaille Su-Ki MOYTOY HOPPER's parents were Chief Kana-gatoga MOYTOY, CALLED HOPPER b: 1690 in Upper Hiwasee, Chota
      Mother: Su-Gi (CHEROKEE, WOLF CLAN) b: 1695 in Chota, TN. You can find out more on RootsWeb, (Miller/Rider/Dees)

      Note* Granuaille means Grasshopper.
      **Also known as Sally, Sookie, and Granny Hopper.

      Delete
    3. ressary@cableone.netNovember 10, 2018 at 8:29 PM

      Try Elizabeth "Quatsey" Betsy McDaniel whom was married to James Thomas Essary. Also her parents were William David MCDANIEL b: 1726 in TN
      Mother: Granuaille(*), (**) Su-Ki MOYTOY HOPPER b: 1725 in Chota, TN.. Granuaille Su-Ki MOYTOY HOPPER's parents were Chief Kana-gatoga MOYTOY, CALLED HOPPER b: 1690 in Upper Hiwasee, Chota
      Mother: Su-Gi (CHEROKEE, WOLF CLAN) b: 1695 in Chota, TN. You can find out more on RootsWeb, (Miller/Rider/Dees)

      Note* Granuaille means Grasshopper.
      **Also known as Sally, Sookie, and Granny Hopper.

      Delete
  42. What is your Mother & grandfathers name? Caroline Carroll was my 3rd GGrandmother she married Powhatan Tecumseh Gewin. What is the roll numbers. In several years of research I have not found them on any rolls.
    Your help would be appreciated.
    Carol

    ReplyDelete
  43. I hate all the arguing on here. Someone actually said Moytoy didn't exist?. I am very glad to have found this site.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I just discovered from ancestry.com that I am also a direct descendant of Amatoya Moytoy. I learned Chief Oconostota is my 9th Great Grandfather. Many of my relatives have their Cherokee Nation cards, but I still do not. I am working on it! So--we are related? Very interesting stuff!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I AM TOO. DID YOU EVER RECEIVE ONE? IF SO USING WHAT NAME AND LINE OF LINEAGE? KARYNBISHOF10@GMAIL.COM

      h

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    2. Rosemary G would you email me a copy of you ancestry.com your proof of Moytoy existing, please and do you know of any marriage or birth certificates of any Moytoy existing? Please just so I can show people I know working on information of the Moytoy and between Moytoy having children

      Delete
  45. Love this, thank you for writing it. I love our families history.. I am realated to MoyToy through .. Amotoya of Tellico Moytoy I ➝ Supreme Chief A-ma'-he-ta-i Moytoy ➝ Kanagatoga Moytoy ➝ Sookie Hopper then the McDaniel line to Cummings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Jackie. I'm June Hicks-Kilpatrick and just posted a link that has your family connection with Old Hops .... linking the McDaniels and Cummings. Best wishes on your ancestral journey.

      Delete
  46. Hello family! My name is June Hicks-Kilpatrick and my paternal grandmother, Mertie Parris' 5th great-grandfather was George Parris, who was the son of Richard Pearis and Pratchey. After my father and aunt (his only sister) deaths in 1994 - my cousin had found documents that revealed information of 4 generations of my lineage. I did the research of names that he shared with me and the best resource to share is Cherokee Lineages by James R. Hicks, Jr. via FamilyTreeMaker.com. His research is very extensive and was/is on point with the information that was given to me. I can assure you that you will find your/our links to each and everyone. We've come from GREAT ANCESTORS and I'm so proud to know that WE are a part of History! My blessings to each of my Moytoy blood ties!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My ancestor Richard G.Paris is buried in Paris Cemetery Clinton County Indiana(1789-1845).

      Delete
  47. I thought Chief Amatoya Moytoy was/is a full blood Cherokee. How could this be if these people above say his father is/was from England? That would be part English.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I thought Chief Amatoya Moytoy was/is a full blood Cherokee. How could this be if these people above say his father is/was from England? That would be part English.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Chief Doublehead was my partner's 6 great grandfather and his daughter Cornblossom my partner's 5th great grandmother. Can you please tell me, was Amatoya Moytoy Chief Doublehead's grandfather? Do you.have an actual family tree showing descendants?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very interesting info! My 6 great grandfather was also Doublehead, and my 5th great grandmother was also Cornblossom. Cornblossom's descendants, through Katie Troxell, led to my East Tennesseean ancestors--Blevins and Buttram. We are, at the least, distantly related.

      Delete
    2. The old cherokee tribe also had numerous links to kentucky.other tribes and early euro traders had to pay the cherokee kings lease and trade fees for being in cherokee territory much like the king powhatan era. Cornblossum moved among the people and trade towns.the largest cherokee trade town was in what is now kentucky
      north of present tn and ky border.

      Delete
  50. Hey Mae West,
    Yes Amatoya Moytoy was his grandfather. I have a public tree on Ancestry.com which you can go to with this link http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/9762032/family?cfpid=-747754218&selnode=1. I am doing my best to make sure my tree is correct, but I would never make any promises.My mother's tree name is Thelma Roxanna James at the above link. Hope this helps. Sharon

    ReplyDelete
  51. I am trying to verify the name of John L Dean on the Dawes Rolls. his enrollment was by blood, his card number was 2233. his roll number was 23276. He lived 1848 until 1917.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you will send me your email address I will send you a copy of the card as it is seen on Ancestry.Com. It is easily searched and seen there. It shows him as 26 years old and his family card shows what I would guess is his wife and 3 children (a set of twins and another child).

      Delete
    2. Sharon Starr would you please send me what you got so I can put it in my records, please
      At my email, starrbwllababby@yahoo.com

      Delete
    3. Sharon Starr would you please send me what you got so I can put it in my records, please
      At my email, starrbwllababby@yahoo.com

      Delete
    4. Sorry that's starrbellababby@yahoo.com

      Delete
  52. Ancestry .com is a fantastic resource; but so many of my cousins lock their trees, and my eyes are failing me; the Dawes rolls are not easy to use.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Can any one confirm, deny, or suggest research that Mary Bluesky Cornstalk only had two children? I'm desperately trying to determine if Irene Jane Adkins was blood line to Mary Bluesky or to Parker's 2nd wife, Mary "Polly" Fry.

    Phil T. PDT928@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There was no such person as Mary Bluesky Cornstalk and the name of Parker's second wife, Mary, is unknown. DNA and a paper trail have proved that the mother of the two children who supposedly belonged to Blue Sky (Littleberry & Charity) belonged to a white woman who was mostly Irish and English. Go to http://www.parkeradkins.wordpress.com for the details. There are 6 Irene's in Ronnie Adkins's history of this family; if you would like to provide more info concerning this particular Irene, I will look and see if she is one of them.

      Delete
  54. Actually The carpenter family can be traced back to people in English Parliment and with in some Bourbon's in French court. I am the 7th great grand-daughter of Prudence the daughter of Old Hop. My research has shown that Old hop Was considered cherokee his grandfather Thomas Corn planter Carpenter married a Shawnee woman who was adopted into the Cherokee. Ancestry.com is a great place to find these things out especially when you weren't really looking for this. My father's family can be tranced back to Maryland and in documents it said that one of the sons had married an Indian woman and I didn't think anything about it at the time until I saw the leaf on Prudence which opened up all the records showing she was a full Cherokee Indian and her father and so on.

    ReplyDelete
  55. You are so right Hannah. The Carpenter family were royalty in England, I believe an owned many ships. Thanks for the addition.

    ReplyDelete
  56. My 10g grandmother is Nancy Ward. I"m a Cherokee citizen thru Caleb Starr Thompson on the Dawes Roll.

    My question is the info on this website about the relatives past Nancy Ward clear back to the "Moytoy of Tellico". It seems on this website, White Owl Raven (Nanyehi's father) may have a cloudy recorded history. According to your site: "Later he was adopted by a man called Trader Tom Watts.,who was the friend and business partner of Thomas Pasmere Carpenter"...

    How could Tom Watts have been a business partner of Thomas Carpenter? These men seem to have been separated by 100 years!? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I think many people, especially those that aren't citizens, like the notion of being related to a "chief" in an "indian tribe" as a romantic idea, and what I'm really after is "the truth" about my lineage. If this is correct great, but I'd rather have correct information to pass down to my children instead of "made up" fancy notions. After all, in today's day an age, it's now popular to "be indian".

    So can someone shed some light on the truth? Do you have some webpages to show what's right and wrong?

    Wado, Uhalvni’i

    ReplyDelete
  57. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I am horrified to see the lack of documentation on any of this!! However you are not going to find it since the Cherokee did not have a written language until Sequoyah and history was passed by word of mouth. The English did not keep records of Cherokee - White marriages and they were not allowed to marry in any formal church of the Colonial period. In fact, they were not allowed to be deeded land if Indian or Mixed Blood, or in Virginia, Black (all those of Indian and Mixed blood during one disgraceful era in the commonwealth's history). So none of this can be proven or dis-proven and anyone who wants to verify their link to the Cherokee needs to do so for present day and post Sequoyah but their Colonial history is lost to the sands of time. I have decided to treat my known ancestors of mixed and full blood with a 'this is what is possible' and not a definite 'this is how it is'. My ancestors were English traders (and one was Oglethorpe's liaison to the Indians) and the traders took Indian wives even though they had English wives. Ensign Thomas Ayres (to Oglethorpe) was of mixed blood but educated in England where his wealthy father, who was on the Georgia Board, found him a position with Oglethorpe. What better job than working with the Indians. Thomas 'married' the mixed blood daughter of Col. James Moore, SC Gov, and when he died, Mary Moore Ayres, his wife, gave their son to the White half brother, John Ayres. She then 'married' John Amory, a White trader, and when he died, and she left for England with the Cherokee contingent, she left their son with his English wife, who raised him. Mary died either in England or Virginia. I can document the link to both husbands, but cannot document her child with Thomas Ayres., although men who have spent their lives writing and researching the Cherokee in SC and GA, told me that they had always thought that what I have is correct, but that I would never prove it. So, I have decided to write it just like I did to them, and include their emails in the book so at least the information is there! What is so astonishing is that my mother is descended from Mary Moore Ayres and John Amory while my father is descended from Mary and Thomas Ayres! That alone would make one look sideways but that's the way it has worked out, and although I can assure you it's the truth as I can find it, I will never prove it! I believe that Mary's mixed blood mother was descended from Moytoy, if not, I have the Bernard and Charles Hughes lineage - Bernard, a white trader and Charles his mixed blood son. Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first deceive!
    The sad thing is that my grandmother and her sisters attempted, all of their lives, to hide their Cherokee heritage - and I am sure she would not be happy that I have divulged and will write about all she tried to hide!
    dsanfilippo303@comcast.net

    ReplyDelete
  59. I am R C Rogers, my family tree going from Nettie-E-Cobb->W. V. Adams->Wiley Vaughn Adams & Eugenia Olive Adams->Polly Vann (born Terrapin), John Cherokee Oowanee Vann, John Interpreter Vann, John Trader Vann. Moytoy II Emperor of the Cherokees.

    I'm extremely interested in finding others who are descendants to Moytoy II

    email wsxr1 at yahoo dot com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. These Vann's are my ancestors as well.

      Delete
  60. I am researching my family tree and I came across the name ADAIR, and I decided to see where it went . I came across the name Ga Ho Ga, who was born about 1730 in Deer, Newton County, Arkansas and died about 1790 in Rome, Floyd County, Georgia. According to my information. I have that she was of the Deer Clan and that she married John Phillip Lightfoot {1725-1780}. Now my question is , is this Ga Ho Ga related to Amatoya Moytoy {1649-1710}? Or any of his descendants?

    ReplyDelete
  61. Well, let me queue the laughter. Early in my research on ancestry.com I came across "Captured Cherokee Woman" and I could tell you her name if I was where I could get to my Ancestry.com app but, can't right now. I was beside myself with curiosity. I had been told through my family history we were "par" Cherokee and I knew the line it came from. But, that is a whole other story as it turned out to be Choctaw. But, in tracing back this captured woman was to be a daughter of Chief Pigeon Moytoy. She married a George Booker. Now, I really don't know if this has any truth to it. When I researched his children she was not listed, then as you say above, I learned there were many chiefs named Moytoy so here we go again. The Booker line did intermarry with Cherokee. I have a few research partners from that line that validate this. So, NO, I don't claim to be from an Indian Princess but, a captured woman who married a white man. I believe that could be possible. I can't see a powerful chief not pursuing this and getting his daughter back. Maybe he did and she had already fallen in love with George Booker. I have sent a message to the man that seems to have been the first to add this information to his tree as everyone after him, was traced back to him. The only reply I got was from his wife who gave me his direct email and still no reply. His user name on Ancestry.com was Tahlequah. So no way to try to connect him to anything true or untrue. I went to the Research center at Tahlequah last week but, was looking for my husband who is enrolled and wants to find out what clan he comes from. That is an almost impossible task. So, if anyone can shed any light on my dilemma I would be appreciative. Happy Hunting, Thanks.

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    1. I have been trying to find the father & mother of Elizabeth Booker or Harris 1733-1800 wife of Philemon Bradford Jr. Of course the father & mother I keep finding on Ancestry is this George Booker and Agatagwi "captured Cherokee women" I'd love to hear any ideas or tips.

      Delete
  62. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  63. I am of Moytoy decent on my mother's father's side. The direct descendant is Tame Doe Moytoy. All the info I have matches, and I learned even more of the story. Thank you ♡

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  64. Thanks Amanda I appreciate your comments. It was very nice of you to write that.

    ReplyDelete
  65. BrendaO'leta Farthing CooterJanuary 9, 2017 at 9:32 PM

    My 5th great grandmother was Robin Joyce Moytoy " Raven" daugther of Chief Standing Turkey Moytoy Most beloved of the Cherokees Boen in 1704. in TN. She was lasoknown as Raven. My 9th great grandfather was Amatoya Moytoy spm of Thomas cornplanter Carpenter and Pride Shawnee.She was the daugther of Chief Osconacanough. Robin Moytoy married Rowland Judd and they moved to Wilkes county , NC.

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  66. I am from England, and have Native American Ancestry, I have tested with Ancestry, 23andme, and FTDNA My half second cousin has also tested his DNA we share a mutual Great grandmother. I seem to have inherited slightly more Native American than he has. I started to check out my matches and my second cousins on GEDMATCH. I matched someone who has the Essary Surname. As my Great grandmother had Irish Parents who came to Liverpool, England at the time of the Famine. And I have a brick wall and can't get back from them. The census records only state Ireland as their birth Country. And they were born before registration so difficult. I checked ouut the Essary tree looking for any Links to England or Ireland and found nothing as all mainly USA Then I stumbled upon Elizabeth Mcdaniel wo married an Essary. according to the information in the tree Sookie Grass Hopper Moytoy was the mother of Elizabeth and had married William David McDaniel. Now I had the surname Moytoy I decided to check for matches on Ancestry and found several all connected to Rainmaker Moytoy. I had wondered as an Engish man how I could have inherited Native American DNA. could this be my answer. obviously I can only go by information in others trees. But as I match several people this must be right?. would welcome someones thoughts... KC..

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  67. Deborah Ferguson... I have been told "Cherokee Woman" Agatagwi Kimmerling wa the daughter of Chief Amadajiyi Pidgeon of Tellico, Moytoy and she was married to Jacob Friedrich Kimmerling. This does get confusing.

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  68. Sharon, I am doing our family research into a line that I believe intersects with the one you are writing about here. Through various historical sources I can find numerous documented accounts of Moytoy of Tellico (who you call Moytoy II), but I find no references anywhere to his father. I also noticed that there are no sources to trace on your post. Can you please share with me the sources you are using to back the data on your Moytoy I?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She can't give you any sources, because their are none.

      Delete
  69. I believe that Amatoya Moytoy I is my 10th great grandfather through his son Kanagatoga AKA ((Old Hop), ("Standing Turkey), (Cunne Shote) Moytoy but only if Conaleuski AKA Robert John Challange Wilson is his grandson (Amatoya MOytoy I grandson) I found it somewhere that he was the next line if so I would like to know how to become a card carrying member of one one the Cherokee tribes. The one is Oklahoma is closed to new members (How can a nation be closed to legitimate members of the nation? I am very proud of being part Cherokee when I was told I had Indian blood I started researching and keep coming up with only partial info and everyone says don't bother its not worth trying to get recognized with a tribe. I do know my clan is the Wolf clan. If you could send my a message on my face book page or an email I would appreciate it. clayjackie@bellsouth.net Jackie Owen Perry on face book

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  70. There is zero proof that "Moytoy" had any descendants. That said, Many of us are solidly related and are already citizens of the Cherokee Nation. Many of us have done our DNA to further back up our paper trail evidence. We already know who our relatives are. Howa

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    1. i am curious as to your line of ancestry that helped you become recornized. i am 6 years in trying to continue what my mom wanted to do prior to her passing away when I was 12. I have over 140 names associated with the dawes and guion miller rolls but none of which have proven beneficial due to the 7 years of enrollment and residence in ok at the time rule. here are my names below only on my moms dads side, only with moytoys ancestors and decendants. there are more but this seems like the most likely common to be used, and its what you mentioned as well. PLEASE email me with any information regarding common names, and how you enrolled, who you used so I can see if any of it matches up.
      KARYNBISHOF10@GMAIL.COM

      chief murmuring ripple
      chief morning ripple
      shawando
      chief dancing stream
      chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
      scent flower
      morning scent flower- paupauwiske
      nonomatatiske winuske
      wahunsonocock
      virginia metis powhatan
      thomas munsawghe
      winanuske nonoma
      opechancanough
      namontack
      pride chalakahatha cornstalk
      taminad munsawghe
      locha quatsy nancy of tellico
      thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
      amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
      su-gi sookie moytoy
      anigatagewi moytoy
      amadoyamadoni moytoy
      su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
      anuwagi peggy moytoy
      cornelius dougherty
      james dougherty
      elizabeth dougherty
      nathan lawson
      sampson david lawson
      george w lawson
      mary mahala j lawson
      everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
      beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
      karyn bishof (me)

      Delete
  71. Brenda Farthing CooterOctober 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM

    I have found record of Elizabeth Judd married to Benjimin Pennell burried in Winkler cemetary in Boone, NC. Elizabeth Judd was the daugther of Rowland Judd and Robin Moytoy/Cherokee. These were my 5th great grandparents. I am looking for written paper on Robin Moytoy, daugther of Chief Ostenaco. I had my DNA tested and I do show Native DNA . I have met many cousins on the King Connect NA on Facebook with Cherokee and Powhatan ancestors. It show how many gens back we are related. How can all these cousin be wrong. The DNA test do not show tribe.

    ReplyDelete
  72. I have 124 names on the rolls between guion miller and dawes (CN and EB). even with all of the info, it means nothing to CN because they were not enrolled during the 7 years they require. for EB they told me unless my mother was enrolled I cannot be. its a frustrating process and seems to be a dead end. 124 confirmed names, back to chief moytoy yet not accepted.

    if you have anything to help you can email me at karynbishof10@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  73. Hello, (very distant) cousin. I'm also a 9th great grandson of Amatoya Moytoy according to ancestry.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. finding family on the dawes rolls is hard, because a lot of names you may have pop up, but cherokee nation only accepts names between their 7 year requirement and they had to be living in OK . otherwise, your out of luck.

      here are my direct lineal ancestors which have proved no avail. some were shawnee married in to cherokee, some were pamunkey/ powhatan dwindling down into cherokee.

      chief murmuring ripple
      chief morning ripple
      shawando
      chief dancing stream
      chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
      scent flower
      morning scent flower- paupauwiske
      nonomatatiske winuske
      wahunsonocock
      virginia metis powhatan
      thomas munsawghe
      winanuske nonoma
      opechancanough
      namontack
      pride chalakahatha cornstalk
      taminad munsawghe
      locha quatsy nancy of tellico
      thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
      amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
      kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
      su-gi sookie moytoy
      anigatagewi moytoy
      amadoyamadoni moytoy
      su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
      anuwagi peggy moytoy
      cornelius dougherty
      james dougherty
      elizabeth dougherty
      nathan lawson
      sampson david lawson
      george w lawson
      mary mahala j lawson
      everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
      beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
      karyn bishof (me)

      if any of you have become recognized using any of these names, please share with me on how you did so as I have come to a brick wall. you can reach me at karynbishof10@gmail.com

      thank you so much!

      Delete
  74. finding family on the dawes rolls is hard, because a lot of names you may have pop up, but cherokee nation only accepts names between their 7 year requirement and they had to be living in OK . otherwise, your out of luck.

    here are my direct lineal ancestors which have proved no avail. some were shawnee married in to cherokee, some were pamunkey/ powhatan dwindling down into cherokee.

    chief murmuring ripple
    chief morning ripple
    shawando
    chief dancing stream
    chief running stream/ powhatan (the chief powhatan)
    scent flower
    morning scent flower- paupauwiske
    nonomatatiske winuske
    wahunsonocock
    virginia metis powhatan
    thomas munsawghe
    winanuske nonoma
    opechancanough
    namontack
    pride chalakahatha cornstalk
    taminad munsawghe
    locha quatsy nancy of tellico
    thomas pasmere corn planter carpenter
    amatoya moytoy (amadoya) (ama edohi) trader tom carpenter
    kana-gatoga moytoy- old hop/ stalking turkey
    su-gi sookie moytoy
    anigatagewi moytoy
    amadoyamadoni moytoy
    su-gi sallie/sally grannie/granny grasshopper
    anuwagi peggy moytoy
    cornelius dougherty
    james dougherty
    elizabeth dougherty
    nathan lawson
    sampson david lawson
    george w lawson
    mary mahala j lawson
    everette s baldwin (my grandfather)
    beverly baldwin-bishof (my mom)
    karyn bishof (me)

    if any of you have become recognized using any of these names, please share with me on how you did so as I have come to a brick wall. you can reach me at karynbishof10@gmail.com

    thank you so much!

    ReplyDelete
  75. 4387482@gmail.com I am searching for a legit family tree for Wut-teh or Wurteh Watts, mother to Sequoyah. My 5 ggrma is on the Drennen Roll, Martha Whiting. She's also on the IT / Oklahoma Indian census. Don't have a clue what all that means? Email me if you would like to share info.

    ReplyDelete
  76. how was attacullaculla and kanastoga both grandfathers of Major ridge andGeneral Stand Watie

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  77. Amatoya Moytoy is your 9th great grandfather.
    Judyann Kelley Townsend
    → Billy Gene Kelley
    your father → Susie Marie Kelley
    his mother → Viola Ellsworth roberts
    her mother → Violetta Elizabeth Clubb
    her mother → John Thomas Brown
    her father → Isham "Isom" Alexander Brown
    his father → Isham Alexander "Cherokee Chief Sawney" Brown
    his father → Naky ( Sarah Canoe ) Betesy Brown
    his mother → Tai Ya Gansi Ni (Tsí-yu-gûnsí-ní) Dragging Dragging Canoe" (Tatsi), Principal Chief Tatsi
    her father → Attakullakulla (Little Carpenter) Onacona
    his father → Amatoya Moytoy
    his father

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  78. I am related to may of you! Does anyone know the name of trader Jim, big Jim,White green's mother shawano woman's father was? Other than Cheerokee chief? I know grandfather is Tecumseh.

    ReplyDelete
  79. We share the same 9th grandfather. My grandmother was Dottie Starr. We need to connect...I would love to talk with you.

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  80. Which should I try to gain membership in? Here's my direct-lineage proving ancestry.

    Direct Famial Lineage:

    Cleopatra Powhatan
    1590-1641
    Mother of ->

    Pride Shawnee
    1615-1679
    Mother of ->

    Amatoya Moytoy
    1640-1730
    Father of ->

    Old Hop Moytoy
    1690-1761
    Father of ->

    Sookie Granny Grasshopper
    1730-1820
    Mother of ->

    Rachel Tookah McDaniel
    1763-1792
    Mother of ->

    Rachel Agnes Tookah Chambers
    1781-1846
    Mother of ->

    William Simon Roland "Billy" Norris
    1816-1892
    Father of ->

    John Roland Norris
    1853-1903
    Father of ->

    James "Jim" Roland Norris
    1883-1930
    Father of ->

    Lucy Jane Norris
    1908-1986
    Mother of ->

    John Earl "Johnny" Jones
    1945-1978
    Father of ->

    Timothy Lavon Mitchell - Jones
    (Given Name at Birth.)

    Timothy Carl Jones
    (Adopted Legal Name)

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    Replies
    1. please advise if anyone has answered this. I share your first few ancestors!

      Delete
  81. My new email address is ol_man_emu@bigpond.com

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  82. Amatoya Moytoy is my 10th Great Grandfather.

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  83. I am also related to Chota MoyToy would love to know more you are free to message me 5107126039

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  84. I am related to Amatoya MoyToy and Cornelius Doughtry. Again here's my number let's link up. 5107126039

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  85. I'be heard researchers say there is no Carpenter Cherokee connection and that it cannot be proved that Thomas Carpenter was ever married to a Cherokee woman or was a ship owner.

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  86. Amazed (not really) at the numbers of people who post but have no clue about the lack of documentation for Moytoy (more than one alleged) and any possible documented living descendants. There is ZERO documentation for this man.
    I am a documented Cherokee Nation citizen with connections to myriad ancestors "alleged" to be descendants of the Moytoys, but I would never claim it because it's IMPOSSIBLE to prove.
    I am 71 years old and have DOCUMENTED PROOF of my Cherokee ancestry that goes back to the 1700s. Ancestry dot com and other such sites just regurgitate old myths and family stories that are, more often than not, way off-base or flat-out untrue. As for Corn Blossom ... GAH ... wholly fictional.
    DNA test results DO NOT EVER prove even a tribe, much less descendancy from Moytoy. All anyone may find from these DNA tests are other people who share some DNA markers, often third, fourth cousins. Many of them falsely or naively claim Moytoy as an ancestor because they, too, have seen fictitious family trees online.
    Hire a real Cherokee genealogist and accept the DOCUMENTED TRUTH. Be proud of your real ancestors, not the ones you "feel in your hearts."

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    1. Vann . . . yes, I know this name. The family that began with Joseph Vann, a Sephardic Jewish translator working with Richard Henderson, Colonel John Sevier, and Daniel Boone at the Treaty of Sycamore Shoals in 1775 when Cheucunsene declared war on them as rogues. The same Joseph Vann who was sent in for the Transylvania Land Company by the Virginia banking firm of Isaiah Isaacs and Jacob Cohen to help illegally purchase Kentucky. The same Joseph Vann who Cheucunsene (Dragging Canoe) vowed to kill if he ever stepped foot in Cherokee lands again. The same Joseph Vann who had to spend the rest of his life in the colonies because he knew he would die for his treachery. That very same Vann who established his son James Vann from the vast wealth which he acquired in selling Kentucky. His son James Vann became a very rich Cherokee by betraying the Cherokee.

      Yes, the Vanns seem an appropriate people to decide who are the real Cherokee and who aren't. I wonder, Cat, have you taken a DNA Test? Because I have and so have other elders who I know. And we all share Central American markers from the Mayans. Guatemala specifically. But you wouldn't know nothing about that, would you. 'Cause DNA proves nothing. After all, the real Cherokee were the Chiaha and the Chiaha were connected to all of the mound-pyramid cultures from Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Ohio clear down to Brazil, Bolivia, and Peru through the ancient trade philosophy of the Kituwa (Sacred Fire). What do you know about that identity, Vann? You who wish to tell others who they are and who they aren't based on papers that only began accumulating after families like yours started selling our people out, making themselves masters of a people who they aren't even related to ethnically. How many slaves did your family own? Remember the story of when James Vann caught a slave stealing food and burned him alive? Yeah. Teach us what a real Cherokee is, please. I'm assuming you're a Christian. Remember what Jesus warned his disciples of, "Do not worry about the speck of dust in your brothers eye when you have plank in your own."

      I'd love to see your DNA results. Probably more Jewish than 90% of the European Jews runnin' around the world, playin' Indian like Dustin Hoffman in Little Big Man. I can't speak for others but I don't recognize federal recognition. There are plenty of federally recognized white people among the Cherokee. In fact, they're the majority now.



      Delete
    2. This is how rich the Vanns were back then.

      Joseph Vann (Sephardhic Jew, not Cherokee at all) brought James Vann into the world with a Cherokee woman named Wahli. James Vann somehow managed to acquire numerous ferries and steamboats, vast acreage of lands, and over 100 slaves. How? Easy, he was selling off Cherokee lands. And he was killed for it.

      Joseph Vann, son of James Vann, inherited the vast wealth of James Vann even though it went against the Cherokee tradition of a Clan distributing it among all members. What did Joseph Vann inherit? 2,000 acres, several trading posts, a few riverboat ferries, the Vann House in Spring Place (Georgia), and his father's accumulated gold which amounted to over $200,000 back then. With all this he managed to double the number of slaves that he owned (over 200) and he relocated all of them west during the Trail of Tears via riverboats. There they rebuilt a replica of his Georgia Mansion for him.

      It's often said that Cherokee owned slaves but the truth is it was really only the Vann, Ross, Watts, Ridge, and a couple other families who owned all of the slaves. Remember the Slave Revolt? Or would you rather not this be brought up?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation

      You should be too ashamed of your family name to even speak on who is and who isn't a real Cherokee. Your family disgraced our people. The last thing you should be worried about is who is or isn't a real Cherokee. You should be trying to think of ways that your family can right the numerous wrongs they committed in the past. Remember the sons of Dragging Canoe's younger brother Shoeboots? How they were excluded from the Nation because they were black? Who was responsible for that? It couldn't have been the Vanns could it?

      Delete
    3. Wow I love you, thank you,and would you give me more insight of my relatives the Moytoy , from Nikitie father and mother and any brothers and sisters showing any proof of Moytoy children, please I just want insight and see of any proof , thank you
      My email is starrbellababby@yahoo.com

      Delete
    4. Wow I love you, thank you,and would you give me more insight of my relatives the Moytoy , from Nikitie father and mother and any brothers and sisters showing any proof of Moytoy children, please I just want insight and see of any proof , thank you
      My email is starrbellababby@yahoo.com

      Delete
  87. Not only are you a historical revisionist, but also a typical yoneg NDN wannabe spewing delusional lies. Yes, I'm one of "those" Vanns (documented, BTW). James (Chief) Vann is my 3x-gfa, his father Joseph was not a Sephardic Jew who lived our his life in exile in the colonies. LMAO He is buried in the Old Nation, as is his wife, James' mother, who was born a Vann. Called Wahli by many confused researchers, Mother Vann was Joseph Vann's wife, but was born a Vann herself. She and Joseph are my 4x-grands. Her mother and John Vann are my 5x-grands.
    James' son, my 2x-gfa emigrated on the TOT to IT, where my g-gfa, my gfa, my dad and I and my sons were born. All DOCUMENTED Cherokee.
    On my other line, I descend directly from Rowes, Albertys and other old Cherokee families. All documented.
    You are an angry yoneg who has probably created a fake tribe ($$-making NDN club) that issues fake tribal cards for $ because you are ineligible for citizenship in any of the three federally recognized Cherokee tribes.
    I neither have to prove myself to you nor defend my ancestors' actions nearly 230 years ago.
    What a cowardly pathetic and ignorant joke you are, Anonymous. ��

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  88. BTW, it was Doublehead who was killed for selling off Cherokee lands. The Ridge, Alex Alex Saunders and James Vann were directed to assassinate him for doing so. James Vann was shot and killed in 1809 by his former friend Saunders for another reason.
    Yes, the Vanns held slaves, and it wasn't only four or five Cherokee families who did so. Peruse the muster rolls and Old Settler rolls of Cherokee families and individuals who were forced to IT. The numbers of slaves who accompanied them are enumerated. Read the Freedmen's cards for the names of slaves and descendants, as those cards give the names of their former owners.
    The Cherokee weren't the only tribe that held slaves. Read some real history, as it was prevalent among the 5ct. Yes, some of Rich Joe Vann's slaves participated in the Slave Revolt. Rich Joe, my g-uncle, was killed in 1844 when his steamboat exploded near Louusville. Kharma, maybe.
    Slavery was as deep a stain for the Cherokees who held slaves as it was for the European/American slave owners -- including governors and presidents -- for whom the Cherokee tried to assimilate in the mistaken hope that such assimilation would allow them to keep their homelands.
    My last post. No sense arguing with someone trying to push a false agenda.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Oops, one final comment, Anonymous. You need to sort out The Boot from Shoeboots. Not the same person. Gentleman Tom was a good friend to James Vann. Chief Vann had nothing to do with Shoeboots' and his slave Doll's children's separation.
    James and his mother also descend from several of the old Cherokee warriors you noted in your vitriolic post, as do I, so if anyone should be ashamed, it's not me for my ancestors, but you for spreading ignorant, easily debunked lies.
    There are myriad original documents supporting my posted FACTS that were kept by the early Moravians, Indian agents, and military/widows' pensions for service in which the Cherokee participated. Original source documentation trumps BS posted online by wanabes and armchair researchers chasing CDIB cards through fictitious Cherokee Princesses. Wado


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    Replies
    1. Cat Vann - My Great Grandmother married a Vann and my ancestors are John Vann and Agnes Weatherford. Could we be related?

      Delete
  90. My tree also indicates that I'm descended from Powhatan & Moytoy—however, I'm NOT interested in chasing that proof. I do however wish to validate the claim that someone in the same line, yet closer on my tree, (my 4x great grandparents) were of Cherokee origin. If anyone has information on the wife of John Hester (b.1754, Bladen, NC- d. 1890, Bladen, NC) named Comfort ('born Cherokee') (b.1754, Robeson, NC-d.March 6, 1836, Bladen, NC) and can provide a primary source and/or solid secondary sources, that substantiates her Cherokee background, I WILL PAY FOR THAT INFORMATION. Also, if someone can provide the same type of solid sources on her husband, John Hester's mother, proving that his mother, Sarah Thomas Cherokee (b. 1718, Walker, AL-d. 1770, Bladen, NC) was 'born Cherokee' I am also interested in getting that proof. Please only text me with a TRACEABLE phone number, and only if you have VERIFIABLE SOURCE information. Since I'm posting this on the world WILD web, here is my untraceable number: (424) 274-0663. I am NOT susceptible to solicitations from scammers of any kind nor interested in random commenters on this topic, unless you are providing helpful info. I do wish to obtain the desired info on these afore-named ancestors coming from 100% qualified and fully verifiable sources. I look forward to your text—thank you so much and good luck to you all who are on a quest for documenting facts.

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  91. The cherokee kings and chiefs and Headmen were generally related in some way in cherokee or other tribes kings and leaders.

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  92. Hey bro, if you do your own research and study based truthful and factual info than you would see that isn’t even real. So, this character named Thomas Pasmere Corn Planter Carpenter was born in 1607 England and came over here and met a Shawnee woman named Pride somewhere around Jamestown, Virginia, took her back to England where they got married in 1553 and had two children together naming their son Trader and their daughter Pride, thus starting the Cherokee tribe. Sorry bro, never happened! this Thomas Pasmere Corn Planter Carpenter character is a mad up fictional and fraudulent character based on nothing but lies. If you just do your own research and study based on factual truth like I did, then you will see that this Thomas Pasmere Corn Planter Carpenter is nothing more than a made up fictional and fraudulent character. May I suggest research and study the factual truth instead of false, fictional and fraudulent fantasies and fairytales from fairyland and wonderland.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I can day one thing I was born in Virginia from where the research shows Moytoy started , is it by chance it all comes together EXCATLY where my alive relatives are and born ? Maybe but my relatives still live in West Virginia that comes step by step of going to the moytoy

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  94. I can day one thing I was born in Virginia from where the research shows Moytoy started , is it by chance it all comes together EXCATLY where my alive relatives are and born ? Maybe but my relatives still live in West Virginia that comes step by step of going to the moytoy

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  95. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  96. My great great grandmother was Keziah Jane Hicks who was full blood Cherokee (born in Tennesee on 18 January 1832) married William M. Maxfield (born in Tennesee on 18 April 1821) 11 November 1847 in Rusk County, Texas. I have information back to my great great grandmother and found her parents names once but haven't been able to find them since but the line went back to Pidgeon of Tellico and further back to Motoy(s). My family has known for some time and have searched to find our ancestors. One of my Dad's cousins applied for tribal membership and received it. I do not know his I.D. number. I believe he lived on reservation in Oklahoma. His name was Jace Maxfield.

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  97. There is a lot of back and forth on here. I would love to maybe form a group of us and somehow formulate a more accurate tree with these common ancestors. It may help some of us become federally recognized, and it may help new combers or our children and grandchildren prove their lines some day.

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